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We travel for all sorts of reasons: in search of self-discovery, something new, a chance to break out of our routines. But how often is travel truly restorative? Lale talks to activist, educator, entrepreneur, and ardent solo traveler Rachel Cargle about creating calm in every step of a journey—and her new memoir and manifesto, A Renaissance of Our Own.
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Lale Arikoglu: Hello, welcome to another episode of Women Who Travel. I'm Lale Arikoglu. A few years ago, a friend suggested I follow Rachel Cargle on Instagram, and I was immediately captivated by the discourse she was starting about self-care and our obligation to bring accountability to our own feminism.
I also noticed that she loves to travel. An activist, philanthropist, educator, and entrepreneur, her new memoir and manifesto, A Renaissance of Our Own, is about redesigning your life and being true to your values. It has a persuasive section on the huge benefits of recharging.
Rachel Cargle: I really have this definition of rest. Looking at the physical and mental understanding of rest to get a break from the constant strain that we're under in a variety of spaces.
LA: For me, taking a break is a work in progress, and I know I'm not unique in finding it hard to actually carve out time for myself guilt-free, but rest for Rachel isn't seen as a self-indulgence. It's self-preservation, an approach that often manifests itself in her travels. When she spoke to me, she wasn't at home in New York, but in a hotel room in Washington, D.C.
RC: It's been thunderstorming here in D.C., and I've been feeling so grateful, 'cause I have this beautiful window. And, um, yesterday, I literally worked from the bed. I took a long nap during the day. I ordered in room service, and I was thinking about how wonderful it was to just experience a thunderstorm from the comfort of this big, fluffy bed answering my emails and watching Bravo on TV. [laughs]
LA: My God, that sounds like bliss. [laughs]
RC: [laughs] Yes. And, I felt like that was rest in the same way that maybe the day before rest for me was, um, clearing my calendar and walking from museum to museum to museum until I was physically exhausted and came home and took a bath. I'm getting better at knowing what I need. I'm getting better at not like spending excessively because I forgot things. I'm getting better at, um, learning how to like wind down from travel once I get home. Um, and it takes, you know, a lot of being curious about ourselves to get to a point where we know what we want and actually incorporating that into our days', weeks', months', years' travel.
LA: Do you feel like a vacation needs to be something of tranquility, um, and sort of what do you look for in your own travels?
RC: Hmm. I think it can be. I don't think there's any rules. [laughing] I do think this idea that there's one way to travel or one way to vacation or one way to rest doesn't serve any of us.
LA: Rachel believes that planning a trip isn't just about booking a cheap flight in order to use up your vacation days. For it to be truly restorative, it should take a good deal of self-reflection about what is a good fit for you.
RC: I've been really having a conversation with myself about this concept of the life escalator that we're placed on, um, when we're born that moves up at this ongoing pace. We don't- we can't stop it. We seemingly have no control over where it's going. It has this end destination that has been determined for us. And so, um, hopping off of that life escalator now, I speak a lot about like I have this stained glass staircase where sometimes I'm sitting on one step for a while, and sometimes I realize I have some things to learn, and I'm moving backward.
LA: Love her escalator analogy and feel like I really need to sit on one of the steps for a while. It's kind- kind of where I'm at at the moment. And, I also think it's so interesting that you don't define rest as pausing, necessarily. I mean, it can be, by the sounds of yesterday, when you were watching the thunderstorm from bed, like that could be considered a pause. But it's also, it can be exploring a city, and it can be traveling someplace far away and being busy.
RC: When I travel to somewhere brand new, I often do want to dive into exploring the space, which for me often means, you know, I want to go and see some art. I wanna try like the local coffee. I want to, uh, go to some restaurants that I've heard were really great. I might want to do some type of tour.
LA: Everyone travels differently. When I was in Norway last month, I found myself wanting to play tourist some days by museum hopping in Oslo and taking a gloriously cheesy fjord tour and sweating out the day at a no frills sauna on a riverboat that only locals went to. It's so much easier to do random, quirky things if you are on your own. It's a way that Rachel also loves to travel, and she has a ton of advice for how to do it.
RC: I love to solo travel because, you know, if I wanna sleep in another five hours, I don't have to really consider about whether someone else is hungry or not. Um, I think if I wanna stay at a place a little longer, um, I have a bit of freedom to do so.
I also love solo travel, because I've met so many wonderful people from the fact that I was alone. You know, I was a bit more open to conversation or joining another group in where they're headed, and I think solo travel is such a kind thing we can do for ourselves, um, to see how we show up in the world, to see what type of people and experiences we attract, um, to push our limits and see what we're capable of. I think solo travel, um, wa- was a huge stepping stone to a lot of my understanding of my own interests, um, capabilities, and-
LA: I feel like talking to strangers when you're on your own is a bit of a skill that one has to hone. What are your tips for people? How did you get good at it?
RC: You know, taking the time to really read a room or read people, and especially when you're traveling, which is very hard for us Americans to do, but to recognize that the way you do things isn't how it's done everywhere, and so when you walk into a space, you have to honor the fact that you are following and not leading in a space.
I also think that being open to the kindness that people have, I think in most other cultures I've been to, people are much kinder than what I experience in America, and so I think that the surprise that comes from someone offering you, you know, a drink while you're just walking down the street, and they're, you know, handing it to you from their kitchen window, or someone, you know, I- I think so- and, especially in Japan, some of the customer service is so beyond and that [laughs] you would receive in the US, and instead of, um, you know, holding on tight to what you understand to be right or understandable and being willing to come in as a guest in other peoples' spaces, whether it's the space or their country or even their home.
LA: You kind of have to learn to be a bit more trusting as well, because I think you end up- if you're not used to that level of kindness, then you kind of immediately get suspicious of it.
RC: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think what also comes to mind for me is like trusting yourself, 'cause of course, everyone isn't kind, and of course there are spaces in every country that looks for an opportunity to take advantage of tourists, and so one of the big things for me is building my confidence muscle and building my self-trust muscle, because there are times where I'm like, "Okay, this just doesn't feel right," and there's no basic explanation for it, but I trust my intuition, and I remove myself, and sometimes I was like, "Wow, I'm so glad I did that," and sometimes I'm like, "I have no clue why I felt that way, but I'm glad that I trusted myself."
And, I think that can also go towards what you trust, uh, in other people. So, like, "Wow, you know what? This is such a bizarre thing that this person is, you know, being kind a way that I'm- that's unfamiliar to me, but I trust myself to be able to keep myself safe in that situation.
I didn't get to travel a lot as a child, and I thought my world was so small back then. I was- I'm from Ohio originally, and, you know, going to Cleveland, I would have thought I was in New York City with the buildings and the people, and I always loved the experience of being in a different type of landscape, even if it was just a few towns over.
And so, when I got old enough and I started to travel, I think I feel like I'm kind of making up for lost time in the ways that didn't get to travel as a child. And, um, it's- yeah, it's one of the joys of- of the living for me these days.
LA: Travel can mean lots of different things, right? It can be very small moments, and it can be large. How do you kind of quantify your travels?
RC: Ooh, I like that, because I- I also think about how, when I've gone to a place over and over, as we said, I'm in DC now, I've been to DC so many times, I lived here long ago, and does it still count as something I would consider travel? And, I think I do. I think I come into a space with curiosity, um, and the excitement of finding somewhere new. Even whenever I land back in New York City, I'm excited to be home and see what will come up for me, what I'll understand about the city, humanity, myself when I walk through the streets.
LA: I relate to that so much because I get to travel a lot for work, and then also try and prioritize [inaudible 00:09:42] and I end up coming back to New York feeling so excited to be in New York and experience it, and get to be in the city. And, I know that I'm very lucky that I get to live in New York, so I have so much at my fingertips. But, you know, the hope is that the traveling doesn't end when you land back in the airport or the train station.
RC: Yeah. And, I think it's a lifestyle choice. Like, you know, lean into curiosity or wonder wherever you are.
LA: In 2016, Rachel set out on a life changing trip.
RC: I have been traveling, you know, since I first did that big solo travel trip in 2016 or '17.
LA: What was that big trip?
RC: I got fired from [laughs] a family that I was nannying for, and I had like a whole summer between that- that being fired and starting school at Columbia, and so I was like, “I think I'm gonna travel.”
And so, I ended up, uh, getting a bunch of virtual assistant clients, uh, people I ghost wrote for or people who I would do their social media for them, and I left New York City, and I went to, um, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Arizona, Tokyo, Osaka, the Goto Islands of Japan, and then I went over to Thailand, and I spent, um, some time in Phuket and Bangkok and all I had was my carry-on and a backpack.
It was my first time using a passport, my first time out of the country. Um, I worked at hostels, and I would like work the front desk for a few hours in exchange for a room and access to the, you know, the hostel kitchen. I had $3 in my account, but I had such an incredible time. [laughs]
LA: I feel like what- those hostel jobs must have- having sh- stayed in my fair share of them—You also cross paths with some characters, and it must have been a really good way of meeting people.
RC: I think staying at hostels is such a good idea for people, because, one, you get- it's like automatically, you get to meet people in the same way where you meet friends at school simply because you happen to be in the same building, but also, um, everyone's, you know, there's different types of travelers in one place, so maybe there will be one night when you wanna go bar hopping, or that wouldn't normally be what you do while you're traveling, so it takes you out of your comfort zone a bit.
Um, yeah, I think I- I will never, like downplay hostels. I think they're such a great resource.
LA: Yeah. I think they're an amazing resource, and I have such good memories of them in a way that, you know, I've also stayed at some like incredible, beautiful hotels, and they've provided their own memories,but, hostels have also given me so much.
RC: There's something special about hostels.
LA: After the break, Rachel describes setting up a home away from home in Jamaica.
In your interview with our How I Travel column, you talked a lot about Jamaica and that you found that, you know, places like Kingston are actually like super underrated. I am desperate to go to Jamaica and haven't been.
RC: Oh. Yes, yes, you have to get to Jamaica. I have this little cabin up in the mountains, up in Blue Mountain, and it's really incredible, one, because it's surrounded by all this greenery. There's a river that runs behind it, and it's just like such a special place, but also, it's just 30 minutes outside of the city of Kingston, and it's this incredible Jamaican experience outside of just being on the beach. And, I really, uh, do not take for granted the very local, um, experience that I get up in the mountains of Jamaica. But, I think that with Kingston, there's so much value in the culture there, including the art, including the music, the architecture, including, um, you know, even just the way the community comes together, the people that they honor from their culture who have made a mark on the world.
It has been really special to, um, you know, find home in a place, um, especially as someone whose family is a descendant of slavery, being able to call home a place where I'm not the minority in this space has been really moving for me. There is a lot of exploration available around the island, specifically in Jamaica when we move away from, uh, the more tourists destinations and are able to appreciate who the island is as a whole, not just who they are when they're catering to visitors.
LA: Did you find that the first time that you went to Jamaica, before you found your house in the mountain, that it felt like an instant connection, that it instantly felt like you'd found a sense of home and a space that was giving you something that here in the United States wasn't? Or, was it a slower journey as you got to know it?
RC: It was absolutely a slower journey. The first time I ever had been to Jamaica, I had a really great time and, um, I was at a resort touristy space, and, um, it was wonderful, but I remember thinking, um, “Hmm, in my list of places I might wanna live outside of the US, I don't know if Jamaica is one of the places.”
And then, um, I got into a romantic relationship with someone who lived in Jamaica, and so I was going back and forth, and I was like meeting their community and the grocery store, the pet store, the school system, the everyday bars and cafes. So, yes, it was a- it was a slow becoming of, um, of my relationship with Jamaica, and I am just to incredibly, incredibly grateful for it.
LA: Your house in the mountains, what does it sound like? What does it smell like up there? Take me there.
RC: [laughs] It's a wooden home. Behind it is a river that flows down the mountain, and I'm able to, um, I wash my feet in it often. It's a place that I spend my mornings, and whenever I have guests, I'm always excited to go and spend time together there by the river. Um, it's full.
I- I thrifted the furniture that's inside of it, and so it- it's full of so much character, and, um, I really created it as a, uh, what I- I call it like a slow living guest house. I have like a hanging hammock chair, and I have so many books that I brought with me. I have lots of like tarot card decks. I have lots of playing cards. And, once, like the food gets there and the music starts playing, and the string lights are on, it really is such a divine place to be.
LA: Three years ago, Rachel set up the Loveland Foundation to offer free therapy to Black women and girls. She also partnered with cabin rental company, GetAway, to set up Year of Rest, which awards time away in the outdoors for people who are dedicated to working toward racial justice.
In her new book, A Renaissance of Our Own, Rachel writes extensively about her own work as an activist. We talked a little bit about your book. How does travel fit into activism?
RC: I guess when I think of travel and activism, what comes to mind first is that travel is a really great opportunity to activate the radical empathy that I speak of in my book. It's an opportunity to step into a space and recognize your privilege, recognize there are better ways to exist in the world outside of what America has told you.
And so, I think that travel is part of activism because it puts you in a space like, "Oh, I see what you're experiencing, but like how do I play into what you're experiencing?" Um, and then, hopefully, your actions on site when you're traveling will be in alignment with your values of how you wanna show up, um, with respect, with consideration, with thoughtfulness when you are being welcomed into other spaces.
I have tried to be very intentional about curating how I wanna move through the world, and part of that intention is figuring out, you know, what are my highest values, and how can I implement them? And, one of my highest values is, you know, this autonomy and this space to move the way that I like, when I like, how I like, and that pours into how I date, that pours into my decision not to have children. That pours into where I decide to live.
And, I think that as a woman who has made very clear choices about the type of life that I wanna live, you know, I talk a lot about not wanting to have children and what that means for the type of lifestyle I'm crafting.
LA: You know, it's very interesting that you mention the choice not to have children in the context of traveling as well. You know, I do not have children right now, and people respond to that, respond to a woman traveling by herself boldly in her 30s in many strange ways. To the point when I was in the Amazon rainforest, and a man, like a- a tourist, asked me in response to me telling him when to watch the sunrise, he asked me when I was gonna have children.
RC: [laughs] God.
LA: And, I was like, "How have I got this far?" [laughs]
RC: How did we get here? [laughs]
LA: I was just telling you when you could see the pink dolphins. [laughs] I wasn't expecting that. So, and- and I think, yeah, to be- to travel boldly, like you said, is- you know, it's a- a work in progress, I think. Both for those who do it, and those who watch others.
RC: Mm-hmm. [laughing]
LA: Coming up, what's on Rachel's playlist, and what suggestions she has for all of us when it comes to optimal recharging.
I love making playlists for my travels. And, so does Rachel.
RC: One of the ways I craft my playlist is I love a moment where I am somewhere, whether it's at the airport on the way somewhere or when I actually get to a location, and I meet someone at a bar, and I'm like, "What playlist are you listening to right now? Like, send it over to me. I wanna know," to kinda give me some- try to get me out of the algorithm and into like real life discovery. [laughs] Of new music. But also, I listen to whatever playlist I have for a trip, I'm listening to it from the second I like get into my Uber on the way to the airport all the way through 'til I'm dropped off back home. And it gives me the audio memory of perhaps the trip, where I'm like, "Oh, yeah, I had that song on repeat."
LA: Yes. I so get that. [laughing]
RC: In East Africa, oh, I had that song on repeat when I was, you know, on the West Coast, and so, um, and I also, I love to go down memory lane. All of my friends are so annoyed, like, “Rachel, yes, we remember it. It just happened last night. We don't have to go down memory lane to talk about it.” And so, I love to just put on a playlist and be like, "Remember this? Remember this? Remember this?" Um, so, yeah, the playlist absolutely matters for the vibes, but also for the memories. [laughs]
LA: Yes, I feel like those, too. I have the ones for the vibes and that are like- that I'm going to listen back to after and be like, “Oh, my God, I remember like driving through this like incredible scenery listening to this song.” And then, another thing that I started doing is, I did this when I was in Tanzania, is asking a cab driver to just like put on their playlist or their r- preferred radio station. And then Shazamming—
RC: Shazamming all them.
LA: Or asking them what they're listening to.
RC: I love that. [laughs]
LA: And then, that becomes its own playlist.
RC: Yes. I love that. I love that so much. [laughs] I'm gonna steal that idea.
LA: Oh, my God, be my guest. It's very fun, and it also means that sometimes on my shuffle, like wei- like- random, unexpected things come up. And then, I'm like, “Oh, yeah. I remember that.”
RC : The memory of it. [laughing]
My bookstore, we exist with the premise that we have no cis white men on the shelves.
LA: Rachel is also a great champion of literature. Her store, Elizabeth's Bookshop in her home town of Akron, Ohio, is also a literacy and community center that amplifies and celebrates marginalized voices.
RC: We feel like we've heard enough from them-
LA: [laughs]
RC: And so, you'll get the type of diverse authors that will really feed you in ways that traditional canons aren't able to.
LA: I'm interested to know how much of the shelves is filled with travel memoirs and travel guides, or is that just kind of more of an organic thing that crops up?
RC: Hmm. I think that the way that I infuse the idea of travel into my bookshelf is pulling books from authors from different spaces who are able to describe firsthand, you know, what their- what their childhood home looked like, who are able to, uh, even nonfiction books that speak to, uh, maybe how the landscape or geography of a space has changed over time. Um, but, specifically novels that speak to the lived experience of people in other places.
I don't have a lot of traditional travel books. I have been intentional about- about bringing authors from different spaces that will kind of bring various landscapes into the room.
LA: I probably shouldn't admit this as an editor at Conde Nast Traveler—
RC: [laughs]
LA: But I often find myself reading fiction and memoirs connected to a place before I travel a lot more than a straight guide or straight travel reportage. I feel like that's kind of, uh, my inspiration in my planning, and then when I'm actually getting to the place—The books I'm looking for are a little bit different. And, I also, uh, you know, I travel alone a lot- And, books are a way to keep myself company.
You know, you kind of- you've spoken so much about kind of looking inwards and doing that work on yourself to ultimately take better care of oneself. What advice would you give to listeners who find themselves needing to slow down and take a beat?
RC: Oftentimes, we feel discouraged because we can't book a vacation immediately, or we can't, you know, take off half a day for work. And so, I think it's worth kind of finding these small, simple opportunities to sit with ourselves, you know, whether it's the five minutes before you walk into work while you're still in the car, or saying, you know, “On this train ride commute, I'm actually gonna listen to this podcast that I wanna listen to that will give me a moment of me doing exactly what I want to do.”
Even these small ways of being thoughtful with what we're eating for lunch, and letting that be a moment of slowness and softness instead of the rush that often comes with our meals. I hope that people can step away from like the shame of what they can't do in terms of taking care of themselves and really invest in and find joy in- in seeking the small ways that they can say, “Oh, I did that for me.”
LA: I love that. I think I'm gonna leave work early and go to yoga.
RC: [laughs] Don't tell your boss I was the one who suggested that.
LA: [laughs] Yeah, I will. I'm gonna hold- hold you to it.
Rachel, this has been such a joy, so thank you. Next week, we have two phenomenal climbers, Jen Peedom, a BAFTA nominated film director who makes documentaries about both mountaineering and Everest, and professional rock climber, Sasha DiGiulian, the first woman to climb over 30 of the world's most treacherous ascents.
I'm Lale Arikoglu, and you can find me on Instagram @lalehannah. Our engineers are Jake Lummus and Gabe Quiroga. The show is mixed by Amar Lal. Judith Kampfner from Corporation for Independent Media is our producer. See you next week.